"I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history." -Cardinal Francis George

Thursday, June 14, 2012

Catholics are knaves or fools I guess

1: foolish behavior

2: a foolish act or idea

a : rascality b : a roguish or mischievous act

2obsolete : roguish mischief

As Mike Liccione has said, Reformed people will generally attribute someones lack of belief in the Reformed system to either foolishness or knavery (my summation), with no third option. Wow is this true. The event horizon of online Christianity (where the worlds of Reformed and Catholic meet) has exploded recently with the defection of a bright young PCA pastor named Jason Stellman. Jason anounced he will be stepping down from his pastorate because he no longer can affirm the Westminster Confession on the points of sola scriptura and sola fide. If you want to see Christian love (NOT) peek into the comments bellow his post to see how the Reformed treat a defector.
Anyway, this along with many other defections to Catholicism (Jason hasnt said where he will land yet) in recent years of pastors and seminarians led Michael Horton to write an article wondering why they are defecting.
First thing I found funny... he mentions a Called to Communion article, but not by naming the site or the article and without linking to it. To me that signals that he percieves himself on the defensive. Why is he so afraid to reference what he is talking about if he is interested in the truth?
As for my commentary on Horton's post, let me just say it is a joke. He starts out by saying he wonders why they are defecting, but nowhere actually gives the reasons the people themselves give for their defections!!! This Twilight Zone-like weirdness is compounded by the fact that he then... makes up his own reasons... for why they convert! He gives a mini-conversion story of his own journey from Evangellyfishicalism to Reformed faith, sounding reasonable and measured throughout, then when he makes it to the point where the Catholic convert might depart ways with his story and breach the event horizon, he throws up his hands and pretends it is just a utter mystery why they went to Rome, and then hazzards a guess that they were just looking for Utopia in the Reformed world and didnt find it, so on with the quest. How patronizing! It is as if upon conversion they become charged particles shot into another dimension, where their motives and reasoning become matters for wild eyed physicists, but really can just never be known by the likes of you, me, and Horton. Here's a tip Mr. Horton: instead of attributing the motives of foolishness and knavery to converts, perhaps take them at their word that they actually have come to see sola s. and/or sola f. as unworkable/unbiblical, and at least quote their supposed reasoning. Until you decide to treat people with that respect, I have to conclude your post as mere damage-control/propaganda to prevent more defections at any cost. Even at the cost of the truth.

And listen to this from "TurretinFan" down in the comments of the post. (btw, according to TFan, I am not "satisfied with Christ", that is why I decided to leave Christ for "Rome's gospel"). Listen to how one Reformed guy will peck the speck of blood on the other guys head like chickens when even the slightest deviation from the "Rome is Satan" mantra is percieved:

Dr. Horton,

Some of us are a little disappointed that you did not cast the matter primarily in terms of gospel and Scripture, but in terms of ecclesiology.

I assume you still agree that Rome’s gospel is a false gospel.

If so, then surely on a Scriptural basis the fundamental reason why men – even men educated in your seminary – leave the gospel for a false gospel is a lack of love for the truth, because of an absence of the work of the Holy Spirit in their heart.

Maybe this is so obvious you didn’t think it needs to be stated, but there are many out there who don’t seem to grasp the seriousness of leaving the visible church for Rome.

Like Mike says, to them we are knaves or fools. Knaves or fools. No middle ground for discussion. For TFan and his buds, if you do not believe in imputation exacly like he does, you are pure evil.


  1. "Maybe this is so obvious you didn’t think it needs to be stated, but there are many out there who don’t seem to grasp the seriousness of leaving the visible church for Rome." - TFan

    And what visible Church would that be?

  2. Good question. What visible Church would that be?

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